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Locking Down Activities
Posted: 31 Jul 08 11:54 AM
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The business wants to add a custom feature to record calls and they don't want the user to enter a phone call as an activity. The customization will add a history table record and a history extension table record to store the information.
Since you can't customize activities (6.2.3), is there anyway to totally lock down activities (of type phone call)? I know you can hide the menu and toolbar items.
We can also throw some logic in OnScheduledActivity and OnCompletedActivity.
I don't know where else they may get to a phone call though since it's all hard coded.
Any suggestions would be helpfull.
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 7:28 AM
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FYI: OnScheduledActivity and OnCompletedActivity no longer exist in v7.x.x and were replaced by series of Global Event (Script) handlers. However, they are broken until you get to v7.2.x.
Also, SalesLogix made changes to support:
a - Adding fields to the Activity/History core tables
b - Auto-copying over the custom field data from Activity to History on Activity completion
They also opened up parts of Activity/History to allow some customization as well.
Remember, v6.2.x is a dead version in February 2009 (in 6 months) and should you really be investing in doing a customization that will require a re-do when you upgrade? I'd suggest upgrading to v7.2.2 right now and then doing teh customization. You will save yourself a ton of time and will have a system that is current and fewer bugs.
If you are concerned as to how to handle the upgrade or want more details, contact me directly.
rjl |
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 8:35 AM
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Wow! Thanks for the heads up on those events going away. That will have an impact for sure. We'll also leverage the additional features you mention for sure.
We have over 1800 users in 4 databases across 8+ (and growing) countries. We're looking at upgrading now but as you can imagine it's going to be a slow moving process. We're looking at 7.5.x now considering our upgrade timeline. Any thoughts on that?
As far as the current project goes, we'll be done with this well before we can get an upgrade done so it's still worth going forward. |
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 9:32 AM
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Welcome!
I'm suprised (not actually that your BP has not kept you informed on what is happening in the world of SalesLogix. Unfortunately this happens all the time. We have no problems slamming BP's that neglect their clients.
Consider 7.5 (on the Windows side) to be nothing more than an "SP" to 7.2... with ONE exception... Intellisync.
Intellisync in 7.5 will be a "web service" for the LAN (main db) and Remote Offices. On the remote user there will be a "cassini" (sp?) web server to support that user. So, what does that mean?.. Well, an up to date intellisync (now owned by Nokia) that "should" not run into as many 3rd party device conflicts.. and a lot fewer bugs (remember this IS software.
We're going to be sending out a detailed newsletter on 7.5 VERY soon to our client base (we've already told them it's basically an sp) - as well as any other interested subscribers.
Oh yes, IF you design your mods to activity "correctly" it may be easy to migrate the changes to 7.2.x/7.5 - if not.. it will be a mess.
--
RJLedger - rjlsystems
www.rjlSystems.net |
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 10:44 AM
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Hi RJ:
I don't know if this is the proper forum to ask this question - but you know me, I won't be shy in asking. You bring up the point that for the Windows / LAN client 7.5 is basically a SP while 7.2 was a SP for 7.0. This begs the question. In Sage's mind is the Windows client really a "dead" technology. Everything I hear and see in the beta for 7.5 is the web. Currently we aren't utilizing the web and probably aren't going to for a while. So are we missing the "boat". Your take and others on this subject would be interesting to me. I really don't know if this fits in this thread though or if this is even the "proper" forum to propose these questions.
Ted |
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 11:38 AM
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Hi Ted,
This is a good place to ask the question.
The answer is....................................................................... (huge pause just like on tv
............................pausing for dramatics...... a little more........
No - the Windows/Rich Client is not dead technology.
Yes - Sage is making a major push on the new web technology for several reasons.
Depending on one's opinion.. one may draw different conclusions as to wether or not some of the reasons make good business and/or technical sense.
Here are some of them.. I leave it up to the reader(s) to deciede if they are valid:
1 - SF.com is considered a major threat and the old web just did not cut it.
2 - Existing Saleslogix technology was considered to be non-competitive with MSCRM.
2 - Very few partners sold and or implemented the old web. Basically (opinion) it was extremy messy to deal with, etc...
3 - Sage SalesLogix has spent the a significant majority of their past year (or so) development $$$ on it (new web tech)
4 - Existing customers wanted a "modern" web based solution. Now your opinion may significantly vary on this depending on several factors:
A - Are you an "IT" person supporting Saleslogix?
B - Are you a daily "user" (Sales/Marketing/Support/etc. person) of Saleslogix?
C - Are you a management person that depends on data from SalesLogix to make critical near and long term business decisions?
D - A BP (yes, BP's use SalesLogix too.. or the SHOULD use it!.. We do
E - None of the above.
5 - An easier/less costly (TCO) way of dealing with upgrades/Customizations, etc
(Opinion.. Although the INTENT is to meet this need/requirement.. we really will not know for a couple of years...
after all, SalesLogix in it's present form has been around for over 11 years.. and we know what the TCO is for it)
Looking at the published (Sage SalesLogix) roadmap, there is a plan to introduce a 3rd generation Rich Windows client (1st gen - pre 6.0, 2nd gen 6.0.x to now and including v7.5). When will we see it and what will it look like?.. and how do we customize it?... Well.. the Application Architect will be the "Architect tool" for it (for Mobile users, you already are aware on the "convergence" path on this subject) so that gives you some ideas...
However, we can speculate as much as we want to and remember, anything that has a target of at least a year away is always subject to being 100% off target.
History (generic) has proven this to all of us.
What do you do now?...
a - Get your Windows based SalesLogix up to the latest version and when you feel comfortable
(after v7.5 is released/GA) then consider moving your Windows SalesLogix to it.
b - Get your feet wet by iplementing the web in it's OOTB configuration some time after you have upgraded your production system to v7.5 using the Eval DB.
Do some testing with power users (and so not so power users) to get a feel as to how they feel about it and what needs to be done (customized)
to have it meet YOUR business needs/requirements.
c - Stay in touch w/your BP and push him/her for info. remember, Information is power and you need all you can get!
I could add more.. but I've probably already said enough.. for now... Some (ccustomers/BP's/Sage) may disagree with any/all of what I've written here.. and that's fine..
At the end of the day the ONLY opinion/decision that really means anything is customer and not anyone else (not Sage/BP, etc..)
--
RJLedger - rjlSystems
"...Customer First..."
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 1:05 PM
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Originally posted by Bob (RJ)Ledger
I'm suprised (not actually that your BP has not kept you informed on what is happening in the world of SalesLogix. Unfortunately this happens all the time. We have no problems slamming BP's that neglect their clients. |
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Oh come on RJ. No need to slam on anyone here - unless you're making blanket statement about situations you know nothing about (which isn't cool). I'm sure not every company using SLX knows every detail of what is coming in 7.5 no matter how well informed, including yours. Does that mean we need to slam you as a BP? Of course not. Most of my customers don't want to know details like "event x is going away". They just want to know how 7.5 can improve their business. I don't know who Jim's BP is, but they certainly don't deserve to get slammed by you because Jim didn't know two events were going away. Not cool.
-Ryan |
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 1:18 PM
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Hey Ted,
The long and short of it is that the windows client is taking a back burner for a bit. It's not dead, just in a "waiting to catch up" mode. Right now the focus is the *platform*. It just happens that at the moment the web client is on the new platform and the windows client isn't. So, the web is what is getting all the love at the moment. It won't be too far off that the windows client will be moved to the new platform and will get the same movement that the web client is getting now.
But yeah, IMO you are missing out big time by not doing web  , far superior IMO. |
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 1:37 PM
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Originally posted by Ryan Farley
Oh come on RJ. No need to slam on anyone here - unless you're making blanket statement about situations you know nothing about (which isn't cool). I'm sure not every company using SLX knows every detail of what is coming in 7.5 no matter how well informed, including yours. Does that mean we need to slam you as a BP? Of course not. Most of my customers don't want to know details like "event x is going away". They just want to know how 7.5 can improve their business. I don't know who Jim's BP is, but they certainly don't deserve to get slammed by you because Jim didn't know two events were going away. Not cool.
-Ryan |
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Actually I do know about specific situations where BP's have done the "sell it and forget it" thing. On ITToolBox there's been many posts where SalesLogix customers have related that they had not heard from their BP since they purchased their systems.
BP's really have no excuse for not knowing what is (officially) going on. Theres' email flash notifications, mailings from the RAM/SAM, etc... usually a "quarterly" webinar, etc.... Insights .. and of course this series of weekly beta calls and deep dive sessions.
There are BP's that do a good job of keeping their clients informed and kodo's to them.. but there are the others....
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 1:58 PM
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| Sure RJ, we've all seen those scenarios. No one is saying that is OK behavior for a BP - you're missing the point. But the fact is, you don't know anything about Jim's scenario with his BP. Even if you did know something about Jim's relationship with his BP, is it really your place to bad talk him to his customer in a public forum? Makes it worse that you're doing it without even knowing who the BP is or what that BP really does with his/her customers. Sure there are BP's who don't do a lot to keep their customers informed, but you don't know if Jim's BP is that kind of BP or not - even though you've implied it. That's not cool and is the sort of thing that results in bad BP karma. |
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 2:03 PM
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Originally posted by Bob (RJ)Ledger
Actually I do know about specific situations where BP's have done the "sell it and forget it" thing. On ITToolBox there's been many posts where SalesLogix customers have related that they had not heard from their BP since they purchased their systems.
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Is it really the BP's responsibility to check in with their customers? From their own sales perspective, yeah, it's probably a good idea, but is it really their job to call and say "is everything OK"? If they want to sell and forget it, it might be a bad practice if you want to keep your business healthy, but it's their prerogative. The customer does have some culpability, too, if they want a good relationship with their BP.
Originally posted by Bob (RJ)Ledger
BP's really have no excuse for not knowing what is (officially) going on.
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I'll agree on that point...the info is out there if they want it.
Jeff
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 2:04 PM
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Originally posted by Bob (RJ)Ledger
Actually I do know about specific situations where BP's have done the "sell it and forget it" thing. On ITToolBox there's been many posts where SalesLogix customers have related that they had not heard from their BP since they purchased their systems.
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Is it really the BP's responsibility to check in with their customers? From their own sales perspective, yeah, it's probably a good idea, but is it really their job to call and say "is everything OK"? If they want to sell and forget it, it might be a bad practice if you want to keep your business healthy, but it's their prerogative. The customer does have some culpability, too, if they want a good relationship with their BP.
Originally posted by Bob (RJ)Ledger
BP's really have no excuse for not knowing what is (officially) going on.
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I'll agree on that point...the info is out there if they want it.
Jeff
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 01 Aug 08 2:54 PM
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Originally posted by Ted Sturr
I don't know if this is the proper forum to ask this question - but you know me, I won't be shy in asking. You bring up the point that for the Windows / LAN client 7.5 is basically a SP while 7.2 was a SP for 7.0. This begs the question. In Sage's mind is the Windows client really a "dead" technology. Everything I hear and see in the beta for 7.5 is the web. Currently we aren't utilizing the web and probably aren't going to for a while. So are we missing the "boat". Your take and others on this subject would be interesting to me. I really don't know if this fits in this thread though or if this is even the "proper" forum to propose these questions. |
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Ryan and RJ probably know the details better than I do, but here's my take on it.
The Windows/LAN client is not dead in the sense that we will eventually be able to create a Windows/LAN client using Application Architect.
The Windows/LAN client is dead in the sense that that any LAN client created with Application Architect will use the AA "mental model" instead of the old model.
The old LAN Client was pretty straight-forward. You had screens and you wired those screens up to the database. Business logic tended to work off screen events. The AA model has an Entity layer in between the database and the screens. I imagine that even new LAN Clients will have to work through the Entity layer.
Now, the Entity layer is pretty useful for separating out business logic. In fact, most of the trouble I have with SLX Web Development come from the parts which bypass the Entity layer and hit the database directly (Groups, some automatic hyperlinks). |
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 02 Aug 08 8:21 AM
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Ted,
The LAN client is not dead and is a big part of the strategy as I see it. As Ryan mentioned the focus was the 'core' product and the web as at the time the greatest GAP and opportunity existed to use the Web as the introductory platform to the new architecture. Going the web route actually if you think about it does make sense from a lowest impact to an end customer point of view when trying, implemeting the unknown. Centralized server, no install on clients .... for a pilot it really is the easiest platform to get into the clients hands quickly.
Now it takes time for a paradigm shift (BPs to grok, Internal staff, training resources, Sales Community) and the new architecture is definately different from the old one. The new client will come utilizing the infrastructure and yes there will be transition from the current Lan architecture to the new one. Also moving to a new platform takes breaking some eggs and before going to a LAN client implementation where many many customers sit. It was better to go (IMO) web first to make sure that the underlying technology matured enough to meet the end customers and BPs demands. I am happy with the choice as I think if they went to LAN first we probably would be fighting far more fires and effecting the day to day business concerns then taking this evolutionary strategy.
What an end user company does at this time varies depending on their ongoing needs. If they are using a BP, they should just verify moving forward that they have the requisite skills. If they are a mixed customer where some of the development is done in house, then an internal assement and some proactive training if required while learning does not effect production development. Honestly, when it comes to Legacy SalesLogix LAN client I myself do not know every thing about whats in it, or changed from release to release. I cannot also expect that other BPs would have the literal 911 on all of the moving parts. Does that make me a bad BP, maybe from this discussion it could be implied.
However I, like Ryans Company and so many others have invested in the skills and technologies to ensure that the outside world (far bigger then SLX alone) is also understood to meet our customers needs. One of the good things about SLX LAN is that in and itself has limitations that allow focus on the creating the solution when it is required rather then mulling over each and every change point and documentation set. I hazard to guess that If someone knows everything about the product at the level, there is a possibility of not having the knowledge somewhere else. Lets be honest there is a lot of technology that exists and work to be done and only so many hours in the day.
I also suggest (I know right tool for the right job) building future script based code where appropiate as .net extensions. This is a 2 fold win IMO (1) code is going to be somewhat closer to the new architecture based code and should take less effort to migrate, (2) starts to reinforce the skills for the transition point.
Mark
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 02 Aug 08 9:39 AM
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Mark,
You are dead on about the GAP issue. I was a member of the BPAC Product Committee (and still am) when this issue first came up for discussion. Although there were (and still are) a lot of other issues on the plate, we all knew that BP's were loosing deals because of a web product that was just non-competitive - both from a usability and customizable point of view. Something needed to be done immediately. The PM team at Sage SalesLogix recognized that as well and the rest is now history.
As far as doing work in .Net Extensions on existing highly customized Windows SLX is concerned.. It can be very useful in selected situations. |
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 05 Aug 08 7:45 AM
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Thanks for all the digression on BP's and the future of the Sage product line. That was helpful.
Now anyone interested in actually answering my original question? Locking down activities in 6.2.3? Is it possible? etc? |
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Re: Locking Down Activities
Posted: 06 Aug 08 5:25 AM
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Why don't you just create a managed form that writes to history directly, and remove the users calendar permissions?
This way you can not just lock it down, but simplify the interface for the end user.
The form to history I've done many times. Removing calendar permissions - i'm not sure what ripple effects this has.
ws |
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